Worldwide Online Meeting with John Sherman - February 10, 2008

Well, hello, everybody. Welcome. I thank you very much for coming to be with us in this time, in this venue. I am happy to see everybody, or at least to see your names on the screen here. I often make fun of the news commentators when they say "We're so happy to see you," and, of course, they cannot see us at all, nor can I see you. But I know you are here, and I'm happy that you're here.

I often speak about the fact that what I have to say is very little, and I am reminded often in my own mind of the story of Nisargadatta and his teacher. And how Nisargadatta found him, and the guy said something to the effect of "Just stay with the feeling ‘I Am.' Just stay with that, and it will take you home." Then, he promptly dropped dead, without providing Nisargadatta with any follow-up instruction, correction, discussion, or anything else.

I don't really have much more to say than that. I don't say it quite as poetically, but I really do not have much more to say than that. All I have to say to anyone in this realm is this: Look at yourself. Look at yourself, as often as it occurs to you to do so, as often as you can. Look at yourself.

So far, I haven't dropped dead on you, and left you hanging and wondering what in the world I can possibly be talking about with this "look at yourself" business. But I tell you, that is all there is to what I have to offer. Everything that follows is discussion, elaboration, explanation, and perhaps some guidance, some encouragement, and reassurance. The truth is that if you take just this one thing that I say, and try with all your heart to see what it is that I am talking about, it's enough.

Look at yourself as often as you can, because it is the seeing that does all the work. All of the activities of the mind in trying to understand how to do it, what to do, where to go, what it feels like, what it should be, what you should be, what it's going to mean to your life, what it does to your body, and so forth, all of these things are after the fact. Just look at yourself. The seeing does the work. None of the commentary, or the confusion, or the efforts to understand do any work at all, except to the extent that they provide some comfort to the mind.

This business of the role of a false belief about what we are in the misery and suffering of humanity is very old, and people have been talking about it for a long time. People have developed methods, practices, understandings and techniques, all in an effort to erase this misunderstanding about what we are, which gives rise to the horror show that is the human species.

For the entire history of humanity, including now, at this time, in this place, in this age, everybody who has come forward seeking to convey some taste of truth to us, trying to bring to us the possibility of an end to suffering in our lifetimes is sincere. Some of us are better at it, and some of us are not so good at it, but all of us have the same thing we are trying to do. The only thing that counts is this invitation, this suggestion, and this insight that if you will see yourself directly, everything else will be taken care of. All the confusion and the relationship with pain, all of that will be taken care of.

On the other hand, knowing ourselves to be lost in a swamp of misery, suffering, and ignorance, we are anxious to find someone with the authority to tell us what we are, to tell us what we should do, what we should be, how we should go about doing it. Not someone to just tell us to look at ourselves, or to stay with the feeling "I Am," because these things, these admonitions, these suggestions are fraught with contradiction and complication. What we want is somebody to tell us how to do it, how to find ourselves, what we feel like, where to look, what does it mean for a mind going crazy, how can we stop our minds from being ignorant and stupid? We are looking for someone to lead us away from the bondage of Egypt and into the Promised Land. We are looking for somebody to explain to us the craziness of our own minds, and to help us calm it down. We are looking for somebody with the authority to lead us home, so that we can be finished with our misery, finished with our efforts to get home.

That is why we come to these meetings with the attitude of supplicants. I don't think everybody is like this, but from my own experience with my own relationship with spiritual teachings and spiritual teachers, I know that what we want is to be given something we know we are lacking. We want somebody to give us what we need, for God's sake.

But once you have seen the common sense of the insight that you are not what you think you are, and that everything else that you do is beside the point, once you know that what you are after is the truth of what you are, who in the world has greater authority in this matter than you? How is it possible for anyone, anywhere to be found (whether in the distant past, or sitting in a chair beaming waves of peace, calm, and bliss) to have the authority to speak to you about what you are, to tell you what you are, to tell you how to go about it, to tell you where you can find yourself, and to tell you how to go about doing it? Who can do that? Who? You, that's who! Only you.

Once the determination is present to finally, once and for all, see the light of truth wipe out the false, once you really want to know the truth, I guarantee you that no matter how well or poorly you conduct the investigation, no matter how childish you are in your relationship with the consequences of the investigation, you will find it. Once you see that what you have always wanted is to know the truth of what you are and to be finished with all of the nonsense about it, you will know where to look.
Still, I have to say that there is some usefulness in spiritual teachings. There is some usefulness to people like me coming and speaking to people like you. There is some usefulness to it, so long as we don't drop dead on you and leave you on your own. The usefulness comes from the fact that I have known the same confusion, the same conflict, the same paradoxical madness as you do. I have known that, I have been there. In fact, when I finally, seriously embarked on trying to enact Ramana's insight in my own life, I was locked away. I was deprived of any help in that effort; I had no one that I could speak to or ask for help in the craziness that ensued my actually taking on this investigation.

So, that's my usefulness to you. It is not that I have something to give you, something to bestow upon you that will make you what you should be. But I have been way dumber than any of you could possibly imagine in enacting this, so I have made all the mistakes you can imagine.

Now, since I have so little to say, and since I do not have an elaborate theory of everything to bestow upon you, all I can do is come to you and say, "Look at yourself. The seeing does all the work." All I can do is come to you and say, "There's no way in the world I can tell you how to do this, but if you will try, you will learn for yourself."

The only other thing I can do for you — and to me, this is the crux of the usefulness of meeting together like this — is to have conversations with you. I can hear directly from you, and respond directly to you, about the issues and problems that arise within you, in the practice of this magnificent method that is really a way of life. These conversations can help all, because we are all in the same boat, and all of us have the same results from this method. Although the arising of experience in the practice of this method may differ from person to person, there are very few things that happen in the mind and in the life as a result of this inquiry. You can see that for yourself, by hearing what other people have to say and how I respond to them, and perhaps not be quite so floored and taken aback when certain predictable, expected phenomena arise in your own practice of the inquiry.

I think I am going to start by reading to you a few emails that I received, and responding to them here in this meeting, because in some of them you will recognize your own questions.

Dear John,

I've been meditating for two years with different kinds of Osho meditations intensively, and it made a big change in my life and personality, including a constant feeling of bliss, special higher consciousness states, and the experience that the mind doesn't control me. When I first heard about non-dualism ideas, especially the urge to find the me, I felt it goes straight to the root of the problem, and I decided to stop meditating totally and concentrate only on investigating who I am and witnessing my mind. I've been doing it in the last year and a half. Since starting the investigation I have had several glimpses into what is the real me and what is false, but it is far from stabilizing. I'm still totally identified with my thoughts, body feelings, etc. My problem is that my mind is frustrated and noisy. I have lost all bliss. The mind is managing the investigation, controlling me, so there is no space for the other thing to come. I'm so obsessed with thinking, so perfectionist in my spiritual path. I don't have much emotion inside, and I am far from the stereotype of the egoless, kind, and quiet spiritual seeker. My question is, can a person find their true self when their mind is so busy, and their personality is so far from being clean, or should I take some time first for meditation in order to be mentally quiet, acting from my heart instead of from my brain?

The purpose of the inquiry, the purpose of this effort to see oneself, is not to teach you how to stop misidentifying with the body or the mind, that's not the purpose of it. It is natural for us to assume that if I am to do something worthwhile for myself, I need to find the right way to do it. For instance, identifying correctly with what I am, rather than misidentifying with what I am not.

When I speak about the fact that the problem is a false belief about what you are, it's natural for you to think that you need to figure out what you can do with your mind and your thoughts and your internal activities, to stop yourself from identifying with the wrong thing, and to turn yourself to the identification with the right thing. But all this makes sense only if what I am is this mind, and this life that occupies itself with all of the nonsense that it occupies itself with. I mean, surely it is true that if all that I am is my life, if all that I am is this mind, this history, this conglomeration of phenomenal existence, and hope, and judgment, and expectation, if that's all I am, then it's extremely important that what I do bring about a change in that phenomenon of me, that it bring about a change in the way I see things, in the way I relate to things, in the way I think about things, and eliminate my confusion, and my excitation and all that stuff. If it's true that this life is all that I am, then it certainly is true that the most important things that are happening are the things that are happening in this mind, in this life; the confusion is far more important than anything else, and if it continues, then the problem continues.

But I tell you that you are not this life alone. You are not. This life, its substance, its ground, its nature, is you, but you are not it. There are some meditation practices that can be useful, like mindfulness meditation (a very simple Buddhist meditation), these can be helpful. This mind itself is, after all, the only thing that's conducting the investigation; it's not controlling you, but it certainly is controlling the investigation, it's the only thing that's doing it. So, mindfulness meditations that give the mind a little more skillfulness in being able to control its wild swings from one thing to the other can be helpful. But none of it is necessary. Look and see. Look at yourself, just for a second, and see whether any of this noisiness and craziness and madness of the mind touches you at all. Of course, it doesn't.

You are the same as always. You bear no scars from the noise of the mind. And I tell you that, without regard to your judgment about how inept your mind is at doing this, if you will just look at yourself as often as you can, if you will just get this seeing of yourself, this light that you are, as often as you can, that is what does the work. That is all that is needed. There is no need to do anything about the mind. There is no need to make it quiet, there is no need to stop it from being obsessive, there is no need to stop it from being perfectionist, and there is no need to keep it being perfectionist and obsessive. All that is needed is to look at yourself, as often as you can. The goal is not to learn how to become unidentified with thought, the goal is to destroy the belief that you are thought alone, at its source. And the light does that, the light of seeing yourself. I hope that is helpful.

Here is another conversation:

Dear John,

I am so grateful for you and your ability to point to the truth. I have a question. I constantly return to a very deep sense of peace. It is there hiding under all my actions in this life. My life and circumstances seem to take my attention from it, but when I stop and see, there it is. Is this what you are pointing to, is this me? It feels as if this peace comes and goes, and as such would not be me, but something is telling me that it never goes, I just lose sight of it, ignore it, in order to take part in this world dream fantasy.

Well, I think you must know that it is you; otherwise, you would not tell me that it feels as if this peace that seems to come and go is actually never going. Trust yourself. The peace that you are is not an experience. This is the reason it is impossible for anybody to tell you, or me, or anybody else exactly what it feels like to look at yourself. Only you can see that. The moment that I start speaking, I am getting further and further away from it. With every word I utter, I am further away from it. I promise you this: You are not hiding from yourself. That is not happening. And I promise you this: If you will continue to return to whatever it is that you are describing as a "very deep sense of peace," if you will continue to return to that, and if it continues to tell you that this is what you really are, then I tell you that that's all that is needed. And the fact is that, when you are not experiencing it, it's the experience of it that comes and goes, not the reality of it.

Consider this: wherever you are sitting now and listening to this and taking part in this meeting, everything that you see, and everything that you think, and every thought that comes, and every movement you make with your hand, and your computer, and the monitor you may be looking at, all these things are occupying space. Even the distance between you and the wall, that distance is occupying space. Now, you cannot see that space. There is no way you can see it with your eyes, or touch it with your hands, because your hands themselves are occupying that space. The monitor is occupying that space, thought occupies that space, your body occupies that space. That space never changes, it is never gone, it is always the same, and you almost never are aware of it. You are aware of distance, you are aware of objects, and so forth, but if you take just a second to sit, and close your eyes, see if you cannot get the taste of spaciousness. In fact, there is an elaborate Buddhist meditation on space that has this same purpose. You will be able to get a taste of spaciousness. And then, see if it's not true that, in the next moment when you're thinking about it, and trying to describe it or understand it, or explain it, you no longer see it. Does that mean the space has come and gone, or only your attention has come and gone?

You look at reality, and you know that it is always there. Just as you say in your email. You lose sight of it, but you know it never goes. And it's that knowing that tells you that you're in the right spot. Nothing else can tell you that, none of the spiritual works, none of the explanations, none of the teachings, none of the practices, none of that can tell you that, except this silent knowing that it is there, whether you are conscious of it, or not conscious of it. So, see this. The seeing is everything. All the rest is beside the point. Not bad, not good, just beside the point. Okay?

Here is another email:

Dear John,

Thank you for dedicating your life to this that can't be spoken…  

Let me say I am proof positive that it can't be spoken, not by me anyway.

John, I find that I am at the end of my rope. I have tried everything over the past six years to finally be done with suffering, and live this awareness that we naturally are. I am always aware of this silence, but the me is also very much here. I see the silence and gaze into it, but there has been a growing terror and panic that has come to the surface, and for the past two years, I have been plagued by it. My heart speeds up, my arms tingle, and I am afraid I am going to hurt my body through experiencing all this stress. I try to look into and just experience the fear, and maybe find a bit of short-lived relief. I look at myself as you suggest, but the fear continues. This has been going on for a long time, and I wonder how much longer my body will hang in there. Another teacher has told me that there is nothing that can be done at this stage in the game. When the identification with the me is ready to dissolve, it will do it on its own time. It is so hard for me to know what is needed, and doubt arises when I see myself suffering more and more. You have said, over and over again, simply to look at myself. It feels so easy at times, but I have been finding lately that my life has been getting smaller and smaller as this terror arises almost everywhere. I refuse to let this stop me from living my life fully. Will this pass on its own, John?

Well, yes, actually, it will pass on its own. And, actually, it is the case that there's nothing you can do. But there has never been anything you could do about any of it anyway. The miserable effort to try to do something about the rising and falling of phenomenal experience is the heart and soul of the suffering of humanity, and never have you been able to do anything about it. What you, the person, is doing about it, of course, is calling it "fear," calling it "confusion," calling it "identifying it," seeing what it is, trying to figure out what you can do about it, and so forth, and there's nothing you can do about it. You could perhaps sit and be quiet. As you said here, the technique of just receiving it, and experiencing it, and doing nothing about it can be helpful at times, but not always. God knows what it depends on… I guess it depends on whether Mercury is in retrograde whether these things work or not. I mean that as a joke, by the way...  

But I tell you this from my heart. How can I say this? Of course, I know exactly what you are speaking of, I know the terror, I know the horror, I know all of that. In the midst of the terror, when the fearfulness is the greatest, when it seems that the fearfulness prevents you from looking at yourself, in the midst of all of it, see if you cannot have the conscious awareness of the space in which it is taking place. See if you cannot have the conscious awareness of the subject of this terror, the phenomenon that is afflicted by this terror. In the midst of the terror, and the agitation, and all of the confusion, just take one second to look and see who sees this. The truth is that the terror, and the confusion and the agitation can be your ally. If only you will, for just one second, ignore the idea that it must be gotten rid of, and look at yourself, at the subject, at the one who feels it.

This practice, this technique, this way of life, there is no way to predict, from one person to the next, what the course of events will be once the inquiry has begun. For me, the course of events was miserable, horrible, terrifying, frustrating, stupefying even, for a very long time. For others, the course of events is "Oh! Oh, I see. Why, thank you very much, sir!" No one can tell from one individual to the other what course of events will be triggered by this inquiry. Just look at yourself. Just see. Just look at yourself.

These things are not hurting you. The good times are not helping you. Only the seeing does the work. The terror cannot harm you; it is experience only. It is internal, emotional, thought experience only. It cannot harm you. Look at yourself. See what you are. What the terror is, is beside the point. What its course is, is beside the point. See what you are, see what your course is, see if you come and go.

One of the hard things about all this is that it seems that if I see what I am, everything will be cleared up in the mind. But that's not what I'm saying. The seeing itself, the allowance of the light of reality to shine into this individual mind, that is what does the work. And it doesn't necessarily translate into any recognizable consequence in the mind. Look at yourself. That is all there is to do, and you are doing it well. Actually, your terror is kind of proof of that.

You know, there are a lot of stories told about this existential terror that attends spiritual practice, and sometimes I feel tempted to return to that method of utterance in order to make people feel better. But that's all made up. All the business about ego being terrified and trying to protect itself and all of that stuff, that is just all a story, it's all interpretation. There is this experience that arises, in some, in tandem with the inquiry. That is all. You are not touched by it. You are unhurt by it, you are unscarred by it. Keep up the looking.

Okay, here's a short email:

Two questions: How does the work of many current Advaita teachers fit into your teaching? For example, most of the teachers say to bring presence, or tenderness, or love, to one's feelings of sadness, fear, etc. Where does that fit into your teaching?

Well, I don't think it fits into my teaching at all, to tell you the truth. I don't know anything about the work of many current Advaita teachers; I barely have time to keep up with the work of this pseudo-Advaita teacher. I know about the teachings of bringing presence and love to feelings of sadness and fear, etc., and I think that that is quite all right. I think it might very well bring about some amelioration of the internal feeling of hurtfulness, and so forth, but it won't last. It will shift to some other set of circumstances. But I think these ideas about bringing presence, and tenderness, and love to sadness and fear are quite okay. They are for the short run, they're like taking an aspirin for a headache, and it's quite okay. I recommend aspirin for headaches, in fact.

But this really doesn't have anything to do with what I'm offering. There are others who are skilled at these practices and these techniques. I don't know who they are, but I know there are some. But I don't know anything about it. I don't know what to say about it, except that if you will look at yourself, as often as it's possible to do so, the sense that the presence of tenderness and love is good, and the sense that the feelings of sadness and fear need to be expunged, that will go away. Look at yourself. See yourself always. See yourself when the experience is tenderness, love, and presence. See yourself when the experience is sadness, fear, and horror. See yourself always, and the seeing will take care of it all, in ways that cannot be imagined.

And the second question in this email was:

When you say to look for the self, are you supposed to feel it, or sense it as the thing that is watching? You know how you said it was nothing you could find. I am a little confused, am I supposed to find it? Or is the point that you can't find it, that is?

Well, it is not lost, first of all, so really, the point is not to find it. The point is to see it. You are it, by which I mean you. You are ever-present, you are never absent, you are never missing, you are always here. Whether you are watching it or not depends on circumstances I guess, but you are always here, you are always present, you are always the same, you are always unscarred. You are not lost, there is not a nanosecond in time that you are not here, and there is not a nanosecond in time that you are not seeing yourself. The only thing is that you do not recognize what it is to be seeing yourself as seeing yourself. So, you look to other techniques, and you look for other explanations, and other assurances.

But you're not absent, and you don't need to be found, and all that's needed is to just look. If you take it upon yourself, as your purpose, not as something you need to keep in mind every minute of the day lest you backslide but, in the moments when you are enacting this insight about reality and the false belief that is self-inquiry, your purpose must be just to see yourself. Just that, nothing else; no consequences, no results from it, no knowing what it feels like. Just to see yourself. And if you have that as your purpose, in this moment, as you sit here listening to me, you will see yourself. Because you're always seeing yourself, don't you see? Again, it is like space. There is never ever a moment in time when you are not aware of space, of spaciousness, never. And yet, it takes a special intention actually to have a taste of spaciousness, a direct, unmediated experience of spaciousness. That is very similar.
So I'm afraid I can't be of any help to you in telling you what it feels like, but I can tell you that you already feel it, you already sense it, and you're not absent, you're not missing, you don't need to be found. Okay?

I am going to do one more email, and we will continue sharing these conversations together like this over time, as time goes on. I am going to read one more, and then perhaps we can have our own conversation in real-time here.

Hi John,
I am listening to the worldwide meeting, but I am about to sign off because it's difficult to hear over the storm. I heard you speak of intention, that this is what matters in self-inquiry. I don't think I, in recent years, have had a clear intention to discover truth directly. I used to, but more recently I feel too worried about everyday problems. Discovering truth feels like saying goodbye to life as I know it, and I don't feel ready to do that. Even with all of the difficulties, problems, and things that I would like to be done with, I don't feel like I can leave that behind. Also, the good things too, of course, I don't want to say goodbye to those, either. So what do I do with this? I just say, I am not ready yet? I don't want to live my whole life without discovering the truth, that seems like a waste of time. But right now, I just don't feel ready. Maybe in a few years, but then I don't know if I'll live that long. Is self-inquiry without solid intention still beneficial? Is there a way to get back to having that intention? I believe I had it years ago, but then, when no awakening happened, I started to feel cynical, and also more fearful. Like I put all my energy into the investigation for a while and then burned out, and now I can't seem to really get back. I still do self-inquiry, but now it is with the secret hope that nothing too scary happens, no changes or shocks that are more than what I think I can handle. Anyhow, I don't know if any of that makes sense, but please let me know if you have any comments or suggestions.

Well, all of that makes sense, actually. It's very familiar to me. I know that I have spoken about intention, and this is an example of the difficulty when we get to speaking about these things. The intention I speak of is not the intention to discover the truth directly. This is a really important distinction to see. Sometimes distinctions are important. The intention I speak of is not the intention to discover truth directly, or to finally be, "Oh, I'm after the truth and nothing else. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." It's not like that.

The intention I speak of is the intention that arises when the inclination to look at yourself arises. It is part and parcel of that inclination to look at yourself, the inclination to engage in self-inquiry. It is in fact indistinguishable from the inclination to look at yourself, to engage in self-inquiry. And what I mean by it is, as I am so boringly saying again and again, you are always here. You are never not seeing yourself, never. There is never a moment you are not aware of reality. It just simply isn't the case, and in time you'll see exactly what I'm talking about, which isn't at all what the words sound like. You are never, ever, not seeing yourself. You are never unaware of the truth, never.

The intention is not to discover the truth. The intention is simply to receive the experience of being, the experience of existence, the experience of the spaciousness of the container of all things whatsoever — directly, without mediation, without understanding or explanation. That is the intention I speak of, and that intention, like the inclination to inquire, comes and goes. It comes and goes on its own, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about that. In the very beginning, the energetic need to see yourself can be very important, but only once. Once that is served one time, from then on in, the inclination to look at yourself arises on its own, and brings with it the intention.

So, it's not like you need to change your whole way of living, and your whole way of looking at things, and you have to dedicate yourself to the truth of being. All you ever have to do is look at yourself. Just look at yourself directly. And the urge, the inclination to do so arises spontaneously on its own, and there is nothing for you to do except to do it. Where am I? What am I? What is this? I know I am here, I know it. What is that? What doesn't change? What doesn't move? Just for a second. Ten seconds. The seeing does all the work. The seeing, you see? And I'm trying to be precise here. It is not the looking, it is the seeing. The looking is what brings you in contact with the seeing. So, look at yourself. Let the seeing, let the light do the work.

There are other emails that I would read, but I am running out of time. The other part of your email, in which you speak about the fact that you don't feel ready to just say goodbye to life and all of that, this also is a common report from the people who begin this investigation. It is the sense that, "Oh, my god, I have to give up everything it is to be human. I have to give up my life, and I'm going to end up not wanting to do anything." I get many emails from people who, some time into the investigation, feel like they are just losing all interest in life, and they are fearful that this will mean that they end up homeless on the street, begging for their food, or not caring about their food.

Your life lives itself. This idea of the fearfulness of becoming one of the lotus-eaters, a navel-gazer, or things along that line, this is all just the story. It comes maybe to everybody who enters into the investigation. It certainly came to me, I remember it very vividly. The feeling that this means, "Oh, my God, I'm just going to become completely unconcerned about anything, and maybe I'll just rot…" But that's just a story. If you are to become completely disengaged from your life, that will happen whether you do the inquiry or do not do the inquiry. If you are to remain engaged with your life, which is the case for, so far as I know, almost everybody, even Ramana, that will be the case whether you do the inquiry, or do not do the inquiry.

The inquiry, the reception into this phenomenon of the idea of personal consciousness of the light of reality has truly no effect on the way the life plays out, except to remove from the life the undercurrent of fear and anxiety that causes it constantly to try to fix something, to try to hold something, to try to get rid of something, to try to kill something.

Life lives itself. The idea that doing the inquiry is going to cause this consequence in your life is just a new version of all the old ideas we have held about how these things are going to cause good or bad consequences in our life, as we shift around trying to figure out whether we should do this, or should not do the other thing. It has nothing to do with the power and force of seeing reality, nothing to do with it at all. It's just a story. Not that stories are bad, not that there's anything wrong with them.

Okay, I have lots of other emails, and they are just going to have to wait, and the thing is that they really don't get stale, because even though the things that seem the most excruciatingly and urgently in need of addressing, even though those things pass and it's hard to remember after a while why you got so caught up in them in the first place, there is always somebody who is in exactly the same spot. So, I'm going to continue reading these emails as we go along, over time. But now I'm going to talk to you, directly. I am going to have a conversation directly with you.
Please let me know what you think about this business of reading emails and talking about them with you. Please let me know what you think about my claim, my opinion, my assertion that it is the conversation that is everything in these meetings, and the sermons are very little, except entertainment. Not that there is anything wrong with entertainment. So, who wants to talk to me now?

****

Hey John! I come bearing very good news.

Good news is good.

I stumbled across you some seven, eight months ago, and before that, I had spent a lot of time and effort reading a lot of these metaphysical things. I don't know why, but I got into it, and then something you said about direct, immediate experience appealed to me, but after that, the searching for new answers and new explanations never stopped. But I kept hearing what you had to say, and then something you said really spoke to the core of me. This happened very recently and since that, miraculously the burden has completely been lifted off my shoulders, John. And I'm really grateful to you for that. I have a name for you, I think you are a spiritual Einstein, but "spiritual" is a dirty word.

(Laughs) I am so happy to hear that the burden is gone from you. This is what I live for. And I don't know about Einstein, but "spiritual" is not a dirty word, it just has its really strict limitations. Anything else? Can I help you in any way?

I just want to tell you just very briefly the couple of insights that you gave that really drove the point home. The first thing you said in one of your podcasts and it suddenly hit me, was that the belief can never be seen. You keep saying "unseen belief" but it now has really sank in, and I was like, "Wow, all this effort in trying to see the belief is useless, the point is to look at yourself." And then, the other insight was in one of your conversations with Richard Miller, where you had this other beautiful insight, and it was so obvious that I can't figure out why I couldn't figure it out before. You said, "If it is true that you are not your life, then you have never been your life." And I was just like, "Oh my God, that's right. If it's true that I have never been my life, then what have I been?" Nowadays, if any negative thought or anything comes, then the self-inquiry kind of automatically jumps in and looks at itself. And, of course, there are all these freaky experiences, like I was watching TV the other day, and then I saw the face of a character, and then I realized, "Oh my god, that's me!" And everything I look at is me, and I'm not doing anything other than looking at myself. And I don't know if it is sacrilegious to say this, but the teaching itself is me, in a way, John, and the only thing I am left with is a sense of wonder. And the good, bad, silence, peace, stillness, and all these words kind of repulse me, now that I see exactly what you are talking about. So, I thank you very much, John. But please, answer the sacrilegious part, because I have a feeling that the teaching also is me, in a way.

The teaching is you. Pure and clear, the teaching is you. There is nothing that is not you. And the teaching shines through you. Thank you so much for this report.

Wow! John, I just wanted to tell everybody: Cut through all the b.s. and go to the core of what John is saying, just listen to what he keeps saying again and again, and you don't need anything else to look at yourself. And John, keep it up, and I wish you all the best. Thank you!

You are very welcome, thank you. I am sure we'll talk again. Anybody else?

****

Hello John, here I am, yes. It is very nice hearing you, John. I was not expecting actually to be able to talk to you, because I saw a long list of people today, and I feel lucky that I can actually speak to you. I have two things, John. A few days ago in a podcast, I heard you saying that when we have a direct experience of what we are, we don't need to stay there, we don't need to hold that experience, and probably you've said it a hundred times before. But I heard you many times repeating that you keep saying the same things, and I feel it's precious that actually you keep repeating, you keep doing it, because there is a moment when what you say simply strikes, and it's perfect. And I only heard it in that moment, "I don't need to keep the experience." And it was totally precious for me, this aspect of self-inquiry. The other thing is that I see how I keep swapping between hell and heaven, let's say, because at first there was a strong attraction to self-inquiry, there was a strong intention to look at myself, and then slowly a repulsion came, and with it a feeling of guilt, so I feel trapped between these two aspects, wanting to do it, doing it, and feeling I want to stay away from it.

Well, it is certainly true that in the mind that has begun with the work of self-inquiry there will be mixed feelings. In some ways, these mixed feelings show up in a really dramatic form, such as the horror, and the terror, and all of that. In some cases, they don't show up in quite so dramatic a form, but they do show up, as you say. Sometimes you feel drawn toward the inquiry, and sometimes you feel like you really don't want to do that anymore. And that's okay, that really is beside the point, you see?

If it's true that what you are is your life alone, and your mind, with its opinions, and viewpoints, and preferences, and the body, and so forth, and there's nothing more to you than that, these things are of great importance — the vacillation between heaven and hell, the inclination to do inquiry, and then the resistance and the pulling away from inquiry. If it is true that you are doing all that, then these things are vitally important, and it is important that we expunge the resistance to inquiry, and enhance the welcoming of inquiry. But if that's not true, then none of that has any effect anyway, and all of that then is the mechanical unfolding of this phenomenon that goes by the name of D***. And if it's not true that you are this phenomenon, then the vacillation of the mind is of no consequence.

When you tell me that there are times when you are drawn to the inquiry, and there are times that you are repulsed by the inquiry, that's no different than me saying, "You don't have to do it all the time, just when it occurs to you to do so," because it does occur to you to do so from time to time, and that's all that counts. The fact that your mind is slippery, you know, that's what minds are, they are slippery, fickle, they cannot be relied upon. But the inquiry brings itself to your mind, and it is that appearance of a draw toward it that is what I speak of as the inclination to look at yourself.

That can take all kinds of forms. If we're really lucky, it takes the form of "No big thing," like you're washing the dishes, and the thought occurs to you, "Oh, wait a minute, what does it feel like to be me?" Or, in other cases it can be grounded in philosophical speculation, and practical considerations, but always it spontaneously arises, as does the resistance to it spontaneously arise. And that only matters if it's you that is resisting, and if it's you that is drawn. If that is not true, then that vacillation is of no importance at all, it is irrelevant, it is beside the point. And the inquiry will reveal the truth, once and for all. It won't necessarily reveal the truth in an event like a sudden, dawning insight where everything becomes clear. In fact, I would say it very rarely comes in that form. It steals on you like a thief in the night, over time. The eradication of this false belief, this receiving of reality creeps up on you, over time.

You were talking about the usefulness of saying that you don't have to stay there. You don't have to stay there, you are there. You are that. You don't have to stay there, you don't have to leave there, you don't have to do anything. The seeing does it all, over time. And the eradication of the belief that causes you to think that it matters that this vacillation occurs in your mind will have already happened before you know it has happened. Do you follow me?

Yes, John. Yes. I see how deep-seated this idea of perfectionism is, and it is like self-inquiry has to be perfect. If I want it and I like it, then I always have to want it, and I always have to like it, and it is not so, actually.

Right, if you always have to want to, then you are in trouble, because wanting really comes and goes. We want one thing one day, and next minute we want something else. As it occurs to you, as it happens that this impulse to look at yourself appears, just follow it, and everything else will be taken care of. Do you hear that?

Yes, John. Yes. Thank you. Much, much love.

And you. And thank you for your magnificent work on the Italian translation. I am always so grateful when people do that and this possibility is offered in languages that other people can hear other than English. So, thank you for that, too. I'm sure I'll talk to you again soon. Stay well.

It was my joy, John.

*****

It's my pleasure to hear you. What can I do for you?

Well, first off, I guess the best way to announce what I feel is a deep privilege to be met here. And I say that to everybody listening, because if there's been anything that I have experienced directly from doing your work, and the work in a larger sense, is just how really deep it is, and how empowering it is to just be met at this place and have it shared by everyone else, so to speak.

Yeah, I am very happy with that, too.

Should I just move on here? I have just a couple of things to say, and really what it has to do with is how much I feel resonance in so many of the words that all your other listeners have shared.

Yes, please. Just start speaking.

Well, it was interesting that you brought up the idea of attention. What I've noticed in my experience (and really this is a report for everybody), to the extent that it occurs to me to pay attention, to do the inquiry, that sometimes brings up the feeling that I'm resistant to do the inquiry, and then there's this remarkably unremarkable recognition that I'm already doing it, I'm already tasting, and operating from this awareness of the ground of who I am. And then, much like V*** said, (and I really, really – I almost cried when I heard it) was that recognition that everything is me. And I'm reluctant to try and share too much of that, because it's so easy to fall into the words that come from all the scriptures and the books that I and many other people have read and devoured in attempts to try and find it through understanding it. But your work keeps pointing us to that taste of our own mouth, the taste against which all is tasted, and that in order to taste it, it's like you have to infer, through everything else. And one of the ways it seems to arise is just to see everything else as me.
And I had quite an opening while listening to your podcast over the summer, and in reading a Zen koan, which had said, "Don't seek from others, otherwise you will be estranged from yourself." And that it is me, I am not it. There's a difference, and I know that that difference is tied to the work that you're doing, and the way in which you do it, the manner in which you do it, which I know that you struggle with, because you can't explain. But we all feel, to the extent that we are feeling it at all, we know that it has to do with not thinking, and flipping everything around, and continually getting in touch with not that object of what we are, but the subject. And I can't thank you and all the work that you do, and everyone that steps forward to do this kind of thing, because it is me.

Yes, that's right. I couldn't say it better. I am very happy to hear this from you. Is there anything I can do for you?

I guess the biggest gift that you give continually is to pay witness to this depth, and to speak from this depth. And I guess it is a privilege to be met here, and to have it acknowledged. I see awakening, if you will, as a kind of progressive stumble, and that it is never over. But the very expectation for it to become more than it is, I understand and remind myself, if you will, that that is an attempt to put it out as an object. I gently allow that to happen sometimes, because I feel that part of my gift may be in talking about this and sharing it, and I tend to blab on about it all the time to people that have no interest in spirituality, but because of necessity have to have an interest in reality. And I just want to say as encouragement to anybody, that you may get this in your head, and then wonder if you've got it, because you don't know how to move forward with it. And I swear when you're at that stage, that life will kick you. And it's in the challenges that you realize that you are not this life, and only when you know deep down that nothing matters, can it matter. And that's when life really starts, because you're choosing your plot line, and you're choosing your characters, and you're just loving from that position. And that's a day-to-day commitment.

Well, it is certainly true that when you see that you are not at stake in this life, that is when the love affair with life really can begin. When you see that you're not on the line here, that every thought doesn't threaten you, that every desire doesn't say something about you, that every experience doesn't define you. When you lose the underlying, unseeable belief that you are something at stake here, then it certainly is true that, for the first time, it is possible for you to see that all is one. It's my experience that, over time, in the inquiry, the personality itself (the apparatus, the structural device that is this mind-body, the history of it, the shape of it, the nature of it) softens and sweetens. But that's really quite surprising to me, it doesn't seem that it should be the case, but it is. And it can only be the result of the destruction of the belief that you're at stake here, that you're on the line here, that your very existence is threatened here. So, thank you. Is that all?

Thank you so much. I think so. Thank you so much for your work, and for doing this. And for everyone listening, we're really in this together, you know. Thank you.

And that's the real truth. We are in this together. Thank you so much.

****

Thank you, John. It is wonderful to be able to be in connection like this again, but it has been absolutely perfect that I could be. And just what you were speaking about today, to really be pushed to see it is here, the courage to recognize that only I can make this journey, and no one else can relieve me from the suffering but myself. I am so grateful, John.

Me too. And it certainly is the case, there can be no greater authority as to what you are, other than you. In fact, there can be no authority as to what you are, other than you. The Buddhists said, long ago, "Don't believe anything you read, don't believe anything you hear, don't believe anything anybody tells you." Especially, don't believe anything I tell you, unless it's confirmed in your own experience, and your own common sense, and your own innate intelligence. You are the authority. You. So thank you.

Thank you, John, and I just wanted to say one other thing. Ever since I began this spiritual journey, the seeking of bliss has driven quite extreme behaviors. It doesn't make sense any more. It is incredible. It arises, but it has no meaning.

Yes, that is true. We, spiritual seekers, could do with a little rehab of our own from bliss-seeking. But we don't really need rehab, what we need is the light of truth, as you have seen yourself, being a long-time bliss junkie. Thank you, it's so wonderful to see you. And we'll be in touch.

Okay, that's it. I guess I don't have anything else to say, I never have very much to say, except "Look at yourself." It is not hard. Someone today pointed out the fact that, when you are in the midst of resistance, and recoiling from the demands of self-inquiry, you are actually doing self-inquiry. That reaction doesn't arise, except in reaction to your movement toward looking at yourself. And if it takes you away from that, if it distracts you from that, that's okay, because the inclination to do so will come back. Here is the simple, plain fact of the matter: If you see yourself directly, without mediation, without understanding, without anything at all, if you bring into your personal consciousness by whatever means necessary this taste of the spaciousness that you are, if you do that whenever it occurs to you to do so, everything else will be taken care of. Everything.

So, I can't tell you how grateful I am, and how moved I am at the response that we've been receiving to this message that we bring, this possibility that we offer. You know, this human species just kind of popped into being, and evolved; it just came out of an evolutionary processes, and came adorned with this magnificent, unexpected, insane sense of separation, this totally incomprehensible sense of me and you, of me and those hills that I see out of my window here, this sense of an individual seeing things, tasting things, wanting things, and not wanting things.

This species evolved into being, like everything else, as the consequence of karmic actions over the whole span of time. And this human race, this wildness that is humanity appears with these magnificent and absolutely unexpected aspects to it — the aspect of self-consciousness, the aspect of feeling that there's me looking at things, the aspect of being able to turn energetic movement into discrete, concrete experiences, and to tell stories about it. And always, from the beginning, we have yearned for, sought after, wanted the truth. We have known that there is more to things than meets the eye, but we couldn't find it, couldn't put our finger on it, couldn't get it. We have tried everything over the years, every kind of political, economic, religious, spiritual, and sexual practices that we could possibly try, all to no avail.

Now, for the first time, with the appearance of Ramana, who had his own limitations; he is not a god, he is not like an angel that has come down from on high to save us. He is a human being like you and me, who had this absolutely unexpected opening into reality, with no reason for it to happen. So, in this time, there is the appearance in the world of human beings of the insight that the only problem is a false belief about what I am, and the solution is really simple, it's here always, this light, this reality, always here. And it doesn't take understanding it, and it doesn't take changing yourself, and it doesn't take fixing yourself, it doesn't take doing anything except looking at it. And the seeing does all the work in destroying belief about what I am.

Now, finally, for the first time in a hundred thousand years, maybe longer, of human evolution, since humans became humans, for the first time there really is a possibility for everybody, not just for the saints, and the gurus, and the avatars, and the saintly ones, but for everybody without exception to be finished with falseness, to be finished with the underlying sense that I am at stake in this life, and that I need to do something about you, so that I am happy; that I need to do something about the thoughts that afflict me, so that I am happy. For the first time, it is possible to see through this unquestioned condition, and to dissolve it like mist in the morning sun for all of humanity. And what then? That's my question: what then?

All of humanity, free. All of humanity, untroubled by the experience of separation. All of humanity, untroubled by the experience of the body and the mind, untroubled by the insanity of thought. All of humanity, untroubled by the sense of fearfulness and anxiety that comes from the conviction that I am at stake here. We are, as we are, the radiance and the instruments of pure awareness seeing itself directly.
We are all in the same boat, we are all in this together. I yearn for the day when we are all in the same boat, free of fear and anxiety, free from aggression and hatred, free from all of the karmic consequence of the certainty that I am here alone, and that I have to fight, and kill, and fix, and hold, in order to survive.

There is no one anywhere, there is no human being anywhere who cannot do this. There is no human being anywhere who is any different from, or separate from, you and me.

So, thank you so much. I am just really blown away by all of you. We have some plans and ideas for the coming time, which Carla will talk to you about in a moment. Carla and I are always looking at and searching for new methods to bring this teaching, this opportunity, this possibility to everybody. If you have any ideas about that, let us know. Be in touch. Write to me. I love you all. Be well. Good night.

© 2008  John Sherman. All rights reserved.

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